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| Photo by Timothy R. Valencia |
Last Tuesday, I had a chance to sit down and chat with Jim Ward before his show at DC9 in Washington D.C. Ward has devoted half of his 35 years on Earth to music, writing, recording, and touring as a member of At the Drive-In, Sparta, and Sleepercar. He is a man rich with passion, listening to his heart in all that he does. Despite the impact he's had in music and the successes he's managed, Ward remains down-to-earth with roots still firmly planted in his hometown of El Paso, TX. He's the type of person that is willing to take chances to see his dreams come true, pursuing what he truly loves in life. Currently, he is touring behind his latest release Quiet In the Valley, On the Shores The End Begins, a collection of his three solo EPs from the past few years. We talked about the new album, his work ethic, working with Al Jourgensen, LCD Soundsystem, Discord, and much more.
Today, we wrap up my interview with Jim Ward.
Below is the second part of my conversation with Jim Ward. To read part one, click here.
PART 2
Mixtape Muse: Yeah, having fun’s the most important thing. With At the Drive-In, were there any particular labels you got and was it frustrating to get labeled?
Jim Ward: The emo shit. And it got even worse after we went on break. The word “emo” just got worse and worse and worse.
MM: I feel like you guys kind of got labeled as the pioneers of a certain genre.
JW: Yeah. I’ve had friends blame me for some atrocious bands out there. There’re like, “You know it’s your fucking fault?” [Laughs] No, no it’s not. But, it’s whatever. I mean, I’ve never been a fan of that term. We always said we’re a punk band or a rock band. We fought it hard before it was a hot topic word. Now it’s like a full-fledged identity, brand, which is good because it gets the fuck away from me. I don’t have a flat iron or neck tattoo, so I’m pretty safe.
MM: I don’t know, there’s room [I nod to his many tattoos]…
JW: This is more of a pirate, scumbag look, that’s what I rock.
MM: Big fan of pirates then?
JW: You know, my birthday was yesterday which is actually National Talk Like A Pirate Day, and somehow when I found that out I started getting pirate tattoos. I don’t know why. Cliches, man.
MM: Why not?
JW: Why not. Plus, pirate imagery is fucking awesome, and it really has nothing to do with pirates.
MM: I feel like the whole “Pirates of the Caribbean” thing kind of tarnished that in some ways.
JW: Well, I would actually debate that with you. I don’t think you get cooler than Johnny Depp.
MM: Right, but I think after you extend the franchise past three movies…just let it go.
JW: I see your point, but it’s Hollywood. As long as there’s a plus in the money section, it’s not over. Somebody was asking me the other day, “Why do you think they kept ‘Two and A Half Men’ going?” Because it makes money. That’s it. Bottom line. “Well they should quit when they’re ahead.” They’re gonna quit when the plus goes to a minus. Like everything else in fucking Hollywood, as long as you’re making money then you’re alright.
MM: It’s kind of like the whole thing with indie music. All these bands are successful while there are all these other bands that you’re never going to hear about. It’s not fair, but that’s just how it is.
JW: Yeah, It’s just how it is. Fair doesn’t have anything to do with it. I mean, what’re you going to do?
MM: Yeah. But at the same time, I feel like it’s more rewarding to do what you love.
JW: Yeah. I’ve always said there would never be enough money in music to make me do it. And it also goes the other way: there’s not enough money to make me do it if I didn’t want to do it. Because the only reward in music, to me, is playing music. And if that’s not a reward, then…I mean this life is brutal. I’ve been doing it since I was 18, and this will fuck up your life – it will fuck up your body and it will fuck up your brain. If you don’t really love what you’re doing, then there’s no reason to do it. But it goes the other way to, because I don’t need to make money doing this. I don’t care if there’s five people tonight or 500, to me it’s kind of the same thing in a way.
MM: Definitely. Always giving it your all. I think that’s probably one of the greatest things that At the Drive-In taught me. I remember reading something that said you guys got your deal with Fearless Records at a show where you played for just a handful of people.
JW: Uh huh. And that was the very last label that could have possibly put out In/Casino/Out. At that show there weren’t too many people there at all. I remember this one show. There were two trailer homes in Mississippi, and the family lived in one and the other one they used to live in. They gutted that one, and they let their kids have shows there. It was a real rural area. So, we just kind of lucked into the show or whatever. We pulled up and we played. When we started playing there were maybe 10 people watching us, and after the first song, there was literally nobody left. They just didn’t like it. They didn’t get it. But we played our whole show, without taking a song out, without changing anything we did. We did what we did. I always remember feeling really proud when we were done, just pouring sweat as we were packing up our stuff. Kids were like, “Yeah, that was cool, but…” Whatever, man. We’re not here for you.
MM: Yeah. I mean part of it’s about sharing music with people, but at the same time if you’re not doing it for yourself…
JW: Yeah. I think I always say this, but I think the good thing about the music industry taking a total shit is that it got rid of a bunch of people that had this mentality of “Cool. I can make a million bucks, make some shitty records, and be famous.” And now that’s almost non-existent. I mean nobody sells records anymore. So you get rid of this whole section of people that’re like “Maybe I’ll just try acting” or “Maybe I’ll be an investment banker. Music? There’s no money in music. Fuck that.” Perfect. Get out of here. Please. Fend the heard. Please. I just prefer it.
MM: Well, in terms of putting out your own stuff – because I know you had Civil Defense and now you have Tembloroso…
You got it.
MM: Alright. There you go. 10 years of studying Spanish coming in handy.
JW: Nice. Well, “tembloroso” is Spanish for “shaky,” which is why I call it that – because my hands shake. I’ve been shaking since I was eight years old. It’s weird, because no one will ever ask me about it, almost ever. I think they think I’m nervous or…
MM: Oh, I was just thinking, “Great. He’s nervous, too.”
JW: Yeah, yeah [Laughs]. But the reason I named it Tembloroso was because I want to own it. I want to circumnavigate the whole weird part of my hands shaking. I mean, my hands shake. Who fucking cares? And then when I get nervous, my hands shake a lot. So, when I go through a border they’re just like, “What the fuck’s wrong with you?” Well, I have this condition where my hands shake, and you have a gun. And that shit makes me nervous [Laughs]. And you’re going to keep me from going into Canada to make my living. So, yeah I’m nervous for sure.
MM: Clearly, you’ve kind of lived through it all in terms of labels: Fearless, Grand Royal…
JW: Dreamworks, Geffen, Hollywood…
MM: Hollywood. Yeah, you were on the same label as a bunch of Disney artists, like Demi Lovato.
JW: Yeah, I think it was their experiment where they thought, “If we get a credible rock band, we’ll be able to sign young credible rock bands and make money.” And it didn’t work at all. They looked at us six months into the record [2006’s Threes] or whatever and just went “Yeah, you gotta get out of here.” It was cool. The only bummer is that they picked up the Sleepercar record [2008’s West Texas] and then dropped both of the records before it was done. I was like, “Fuck. Almost got it out in a bigger way.” But it’s alright.
MM: So you prefer now to do things on your own terms? Obviously there’re some limitations there.
JW: Yeah, it’s money. But as far as creative control goes, it’s awesome. I let go of pretty much whole staff except for a booking agent, so now I have no management, business manager – I don’t have any of that stuff. It’s been cool, but now I’m finding the limitations of myself. When you find your limitations, then you can start assigning things to other people. So now I’ll go on the hunt for a manager and whatever. I’m sure Sparta will do whatever Sparta does.
MM: Speaking of doing things on your own terms, you’re about to open your own concert venue [Tricky Falls] in El Paso…
JW: It opened actually. It opened on Sunday.
MM: How’s that going?
JW: It’s great! We had 787 people for Bright Eyes. The bar [Bowie Feathers, located above Tricky Falls] is open and doing good. Conor got to be my first bro in there and do the first concert. I couldn’t be happier. I mean, it would have been a dream to have him play. I met him when I was 18 on the first At the Drive-In tour, and he was probably 16, doing Commander Venus. We see each other now and then. He’s probably one of my oldest, continuous acquaintances/friends that plays music. Who would have thought that 15 years later he’d be opening up my venue? It’s good. We’re trying to do something really special in El Paso, taking the experiences we’ve had and what we've learned around the world and putting them into this joint. If we can get through a couple of months, then we’ll be alright. If we can’t, it’s going to be really ugly, because it’s fucking gigantic building.
MM: But hey, man. It’s an experience. One day you can say, “I had a concert venue.”
JW: Yeah, for a week. It was awesome. Then I went to debtor’s prison. I’ll just do shows in debtor’s prison. Pay it off slowly.
MM: You could put out your own At Folsom Prison.
JW: That’s right! There’s a minimum security prison just up the road from my house. So…
MM: There you go. Maybe just make a live record there.
JW: I should.
I don’t think they want to hear me play.
MM: You never know.
JW: You never know.
MM: Well, between that and Tembloroso, you’re still touring and writing, and you and Gabe have your recording studio Clap of Thunder. Is there anything you haven’t done yet that you want to do?
JW: A restaurant. I’d like to do some sort of a restaurant, and a coffee shop. Maybe like a retail store where Tembloroso meets, I don’t know, something else. I’d like to have a building where I could put all of this stuff into one space. I think we’re maybe a few years away from that. It’s just a balance, you know? It’s a juggle of “if this can make this, then this can only lose this and then maybe we can do this.” I just want to keep putting into my community, putting my mouth and money and my life all in the same room. I always say this, I don’t have any need for a nice car or anything. I have a nice house that’s totally adequate. I have a tour van and a car. That’s it, man. If I can just keep putting back in to my city and raise these kids, I think that’ll be alright with me. Just give them a good fucking spot to see a show at.
MM: Definitely. I think it'd be good to end here, but let's end on a random note. Favorite record to play in the van on tour?
JW: Geez louise. I think there’s the classics of my generation, like OK Computer – which has probably been played 15 million times. Jawbox’s Gripe, Grip, Grippe…I’m gonna ask J [Robbins] how you fucking say it. I can now in life ask J Robbins how to say it [Laughs]. I remember getting In On the Kill Taker right before we went on tour and just absolutely wearing it the fuck out. Mmmm, 24 Hour Revenge Therapy, Jawbreaker. I mean those were the records I grew up with. Those are the heavy ones, for sure. Right now? I don’t really have one. The iPod has really just changed everything. Now you’re just on shuffle and like “Shit! I haven’t heard that one in so long!” Back in the day you couldn’t tour with 12,000 CDs in the van. Now I can.
* * *
My thanks to Jim Ward and Amanda Pitts.
Cross one off the bucket list.
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